AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Julie Chan is in a dead-end job, scanning groceries and constantly getting mistaken for her, Chloe Van Huusen, famous influencer and Julie's identical twin. They are somewhat estranged, separated as young children after the deaths of their parents. Two decades later, a mysterious phone call from Chloe leads Julie to make a bold, illegal and morally questionable move. That's the start of Liann Zhang's debut novel, "Julie Chan Is Dead." She's here now. Welcome to the program.
LIANN ZHANG: Thank you so much for having me.
RASCOE: This is the thing about the book - Julie Chan is not dead, Chloe is.
ZHANG: (Laughter) No.
RASCOE: Tell us how this happens.
ZHANG: Yeah. So basically, one of them, Chloe, gets adopted by a very rich, affluent white couple in New York City, and the other one goes to their aunt, and they don't ever talk, except for one moment when Chloe, who has become a famous YouTuber, does this, quote-unquote, "charity video" where she reunites with her sister and gives her a house and afterwards, disappears from her life again. And then Julie receives a call years later, and she goes and discovers her twin sister dead, so she decides to swap lives and take her sister's life and all of her followers and all of her glamour for herself.
RASCOE: It's a bold move to take over anyone's life. This is really complicated because Chloe is an influencer. She's trying to do those cycling classes. I wouldn't have made it. And then there's this clique that Chloe is a part of. Tell me about Bella Marie.
ZHANG: Yeah, Bella Marie kind of serves as one of, like, the main antagonist of the story, although she kind of starts out as a friend. Pretty early on, I think readers will catch on that there's just kind of a mysterious, wrong vibe about her. But basically, she is kind of an it girl of the internet, and it's someone that the main character, Julie, has known since childhood, you know, seeing her images on Tumblr and reblogging all her photos. And so when Julie gets inducted into this group of women that are influencers, she's so excited to be kind of led by Bella Marie, her internet idol, essentially. Yeah.
RASCOE: And the group is the Belladonnas. Is that a reference to the plant?
ZHANG: Yes, it's, like, a very beautiful plant, but it's also toxic. So...
RASCOE: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You obviously take a swipe at influencer culture, but I loved the dialogue. It was spot on.
ZHANG: (Laughter) You know, in high school, I was briefly an influencer myself, a skinfluencer, as they used to say. I mean, I did notice that a lot of the ways that they speak to each other, there's almost an element of, like, echolalia between the groups. And to me, it kind of is similar to how it might feel or sound if you were to pull up an Instagram photo and look through the comments. Thousands of people being like, wow, you're so beautiful. So beautiful. Gorgeous.
RASCOE: We wanted to have you read, like, an example where they're in the group chat for the Belladonnas. It's called Hot Girls Only, of course, and they're trying to comfort so-called Chloe because her twin has died.
ZHANG: (Reading) Maya (ph) - I can suggest an amazing therapist. She's done heaven's work for my grief. Angelique (ph) - we're always here for you. Sophia (ph) - think of all the positive memories you have of Julie. Lily (ph) - you're in my thoughts. Emeline (ph) - I'm sorry for your loss. Kelly (ph) - we are our family. Anna even penned me a poem. Death - everyone will face it at some point in time. Hope you feel better.
RASCOE: There's a great line where someone's like, you know, inserting line breaks into sentences is not poetry.
(LAUGHTER)
RASCOE: Like, the poetry one is the best.
ZHANG: I'm glad you think so (laughter).
RASCOE: Did you like your time as a skin care content creator, like, as a skinfluencer?
ZHANG: It's a very conflicting relationship because I started this when I was a teenager. I think it was 15, 16 because I had awful cystic acne, and I would start reviewing product. I'd just wake up and there'd be, like, free stuff for me. Like, it's Christmas every day. I mean, I never got as big as the influencers in my book 'cause these people have millions. And if I had millions, I probably would not have written this book. I probably would have...
RASCOE: (Laughter) You would have stayed in it.
ZHANG: Yeah, exactly. But it started to feel very superficial, and at a certain point, the novelty of free things kind of wears off, and it just becomes, like, excess.
RASCOE: Not to give anything away, but there is this secretive island retreat, and it does take a bit of a turn here. This gets into a little bit of, like, campy horror. There's some mysterious substances, possible animal sacrifice, cult-like behavior, a mystical deity. What made you want to go into that territory?
ZHANG: (Laughter) Yeah. I mean, personally, I love when stories get like that. The island scenes and the island setting, I love the idea. It's kind of like a locked room, but instead of a room, they're in this gorgeous island where you feel like nothing can go wrong, but then everything does. A lot of the times I would see influencers get sent out to these, like, million-dollar brand retreats to, like, these gorgeous islands, and I always had the question in my mind. It's like, they're gone for a whole week, but they only film, like, one 30-minute video or, like, two TikToks. Like, what happens during all those hours that go unfilmed? Probably nothing. Probably they're tanning and having fun (laughter).
RASCOE: Or it could be much darker.
ZHANG: Yes. 'Cause that's where my brain goes. Like, that's just what I think about.
RASCOE: Yeah.
ZHANG: Yeah.
RASCOE: There does seem to be, like, a push and a pull in the book, where, yes, this world can be very shallow, but there's also this idea of, like, sisterhood and being, you know, supported through hard times. Do you feel like Julie ultimately learns something from all of this, and do you think she's a changed person?
ZHANG: I think she is a changed person, although maybe not in the way that some people would like her to change.
RASCOE: (Laughter).
ZHANG: Some influencers that I've seen personally, who I followed for a long time kind of lose themselves to fit into a certain norm. That was kind of what I wanted to mirror, but I would say on a more extreme level (laughter). So there is change, but not necessarily the most, like, oh, she really learned her lesson. Like, she became a better person. Not necessarily like that, I would say, without saying too much. Yeah.
RASCOE: That's Liann Zhang. Her new novel is "Julie Chan Is Dead." Thank you so much for talking with us.
ZHANG: Thank you so much for having me.
(SOUNDBITE OF NEWJEANS SONG, "RIGHT NOW") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
