STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Macomb County, Michigan, where the president spoke last night, is a classic swing county. It voted twice for Barack Obama and then three times for Donald Trump. But while voting for Trump, the county also voted for Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer and for Mark Hackel, who is the Democratic county executive and our next guest. Good morning, sir.
MARK HACKEL: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: What is Macomb County like for those who haven't been? I'm looking at the map. You're outside Detroit.
HACKEL: Yeah. We're outside Detroit. I mean, obviously, we border Lake St. Clair, just north of the city of Detroit. And, you know, about a million people - you know, just closing in on a million people as far as population. Heavily automotive. We're very strong on defense, and, you know, we've got about 1,600 manufacturers. You know, they employ about 70,000 individuals. So, you know, it's a strong workforce that we have here. And, you know, just kind of one of those communities that, you know, when it comes to our politics, as you just got through mentioning, you know, they kind of differ. You know, sometimes they'll favor the Democratic side, the Republican side. And, you know, it's swung over more to the conservative side as of the past probably 10 years than we've ever seen before.
INSKEEP: So classic blue-collar county. And you mentioned another thing that's very interesting. It's common for us to say we don't make anything anymore in America. People actually make things in Macomb County, Michigan. Residents in Macomb County make things.
HACKEL: Yeah. And about 10 years ago, when manufacturing was a challenge, we doubled down on it, and I think we're manufacturing more things as a result.
INSKEEP: How do the president's early actions match with people's expectations in your county that voted for him?
HACKEL: Yeah, I think a lot of anxiety, you know, across the board, whether it's in education departments, people that provide, you know, some assistance to others, you know, the issues dealing with DEI. You know, there's a lot of concerns with our manufacturers - automotive, even in defense. And so, you know, some of his policies, I think, had a lot of people up in arms and, you know, concerned, and I think it was not weighing in his favor during that time.
INSKEEP: What do the automotive tariffs specifically mean for people in Macomb County?
HACKEL: Interesting enough, we've talked to a lot of our manufacturers, and even some of the big three. We're having more conversation with them. We're constantly conversing with them to find out what this means. I think they're trying to make a determination, you know, what is real, what is not. You know, sometimes he says something, he's negotiating with himself. So many of them are taking a measured approach here in Macomb County - kind of the wait and see what's happening, but also trying to make some of those adjustments in case they - you know, what he says is the direction he's going in, which makes them very concerned.
INSKEEP: Are people feeling paralyzed, then?
HACKEL: You know, I don't know if it's paralyzed. They're still trying to figure out how do they manage what they're doing - trying to provide, you know, the connections that they can and making sure that they're, you know, sourcing things the way they need to source them, trying to make sure they're providing the outputs of the products. They're still trying to do what they normally have done. But I think the big concern is, you know, what is the cost associated with it and how they pass it along to a customer.
INSKEEP: Yeah. I guess we should just remind people - the auto industry has set itself up in such a way that products move across the border from Canada and from Mexico to the United States, back and forth. As cars are assembled, the components come from lots of places. The assembly is done a lot of places. That's really complicated. It's hard to mess with. But when I talk with people in the Midwest, where I'm from, sometimes I hear people say, OK, fine. This is all complicated, but too many manufacturing jobs have gone away. We need a reset. We need something drastic. Do you hear people in your county saying, you know, I don't know what the solution is, but we needed to do something drastic?
HACKEL: Yeah, that's definitely part of the conversation. You know, even the United Auto Workers - you know, they're pretty much - you know, they're applauding the tariffs, and - which was kind of surprising. We weren't sure exactly, you know, what that meant. But, you know, Shawn Fain was out there, you know, kind of crediting the president for doing that, so...
INSKEEP: He's been on this program talking about it. Yeah.
HACKEL: Yeah. Yeah, and he's - and he actually lives in Macomb County, as a matter of fact. So, you know, that being said, you know, you're trying to figure out, OK, what does this really mean? You've got - which usually, you would think there'd be opposition on behalf of - the auto workers supporting, you know, the president's ideas of, you know, bringing these companies, these jobs back to the United States and, in particular, the state of Michigan.
INSKEEP: I've just got about 15 seconds, but we had an economist on the program today talking about a recession drawing closer. Are you preparing for economic hard times?
HACKEL: Yeah. Yeah, we've heard about that. We're - we've talked to economists. And they can - they tend to think that if there is a recession, Macomb County's going to do pretty well through that process, but it's definitely going to be something that's concerning to us.
INSKEEP: Mark Hackel is the Democratic county executive in Macomb County, Michigan, where President Trump spoke last night. Thanks so much, sir.
HACKEL: Thanks, Steve. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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